Redemption & The Vees
It's been a minute since I've written anything. That's for a couple of reasons, but the first is that my Mom came to visit... and along with her, she brought my shitty old laptop! Now, I used to only use this laptop for playing Toontown Rewritten... but now it's turned into my Unity, Blender, Stepmania, Vegas 14, and anything else that requires Windows and not Linux computer!
(Which is a damn shame, because the laptop is very much on it's last legs and would probably benefit from a nice dosage of Linux Mint XFCE)
I digress. I've been busy working on some of my VRChat avatars. Here are some pictures if you're curious!
For the last little while, I've been stuck in a Deltarune hyperfixation. But recently, my brain's decided to change course. I don't know why. It's been jumping between Deltarune and The Amazing Digital Circus. But I believe since Hazbin Hotel is right around the corner, my mind has picked up on the hype ahead of time, and has started to prepare me for the inevitable hyperfixation to kick in. And it has, ahead of schedule. I know when a hyperfixation has settled in when I'm thinking about my original characters for said hyperfixation.
I believe this was possibly helped by the fact that one of my closest friends was already in a Hazbin Hotel hyperfixation of her own. Hearing her talk about the show got me thinking about it in passing. Then, my husband began crafting his own original character for the show. So for whatever reason, the Hazbin hyperfixation crept into his brain too. I'd like to mention the friend I mentioned before and my husband aren't even in contact, these were just two separate instances.
So, hell, it was only a matter of time. I've jumped right back into the train of Hazbin Hotel. I'm counting down the days until Season 2's release. Which I'm greatly looking forward to, because I intend to stream the release of the episodes to my friends as they come out. I know I'm going to watching Season 2 multiple times throughout the next few months, which will be fantastic if I decide to write fanfiction about the franchise like I've been planning.
My main friend group is planning to watch it.
I know my husband and I will be watching it together.
Then my husband and I plan to introduce our two other friends into the show.
Fun times all around!
Now I know Hazbin Hotel and Vivziepop in general is a widely debated topic on the internet.
I don't care.
So anyway.
I've been doing a lot of thinking about the Vees. Velvette, Vox, and Valentino. In most media for whatever reason, I seem to gravitate toward the villains. It's probably because villains have the hottest voice- huh? Sorry, what? Who said that? Huh. Must've been the wind.
We currently have very limited knowledge on the Vees. We were introduced to them on occasion in Season One, but they had limited screentime compared to the rest of the cast. Valentino did get a lot of screentime but that's due to his connection to Angel Dust. But even then, we don't know much about Valentino beyond being the worst ever.
We can get a sort-of read on all of the Vees from their screentime, though.
Velvette is the youngest of the Vees, the self-proclaimed backbone, fashionista, rude, and a badass lady. Respectless is my favourite song in Hazbin Hotel and I often catch myself singing it to myself at random times. We know very little about Velvette compared to the rest of the Vees, but I love her. She is my favourite of the Vees.
Vox is the one protecting the Vee's brand image, keeping them from doing anything incredibly stupid, he's charismatic, charming, probably had a sort of one-sided crush on Alastor, and capable of brainwashing most of the sinners into trusting VoxTek. Vox is my second favourite.
Valentino is a selfish and abusive creep, dumbass, impulsive, and a player.
I started thinking more in-depth about the Vees while thinking about my two original characters for Hazbin. For context, both of them are meant to be fourth and fifth additions to the Vees. So I was thinking how their presence would impact the Vees dynamic. Then, I began thinking of how all five of them would tackle the hotel. I have to credit a person on TVTropes for this, but I went onto the WMG page for Hazbin Hotel and I saw a theory that stuck out to me.
I had already somewhat been of the opinion that if there was anyone in the Vees who was going to "redeem" themselves, it would be Velvette. So I started exploring that idea a bit more in my writing. Specifically, what would it take for Velvette to give the middle fingers to the other two Vees and run off on her own? One person on TVTropes suggested Velvette infiltrating the main ranks of the hotel, then liking the environment a little too much to leave, but now that I'm thinking about it... that sounds a little too close to how Sir Pentious got redeemed.
But it got me thinking. Really, it was the diving board for my mind to start exploring. But strangely, it made me circle around to one thought in particular. Why is that people think Velvette is going to get redeemed? I think it's because we don't really know too much about her. So I started poking around online for the thoughts of the masses. Something I don't think I'd recommend to anyone, but I'm a sucker for theory videos that are over an hour long.
Sadly, I found none. But during that time searching, I was thinking more about Velvette. We know Valentino is fucking awful. What about Vox and Velvette? If one were to take a glance over to the Hazbin Hotel wiki, there's a specific mention on the Vees page that says all of them are aware of the other's activities and enable each other. While this was an important aspect to consider while crafting original characters, notice how it says activities. They all enable each other.
Vox manipulates the masses. Valentino abuses his employees. We don't really know what Velvette does. We've seen that she, to some degree, cares about her models. If I had to guess, I think she probably picks at the appearance of her models. It's the most basic guess to go with, yes, but I won't have any other context to work with until the new seasons come out. I do prefer the version of Velvette I've seen in fan-made ASMR videos where she builds up the confidence of her models though.
...But that's probably not canon Velvette. If it IS canon Velvette, then we'll probably be closer to that theory of her being one of the redeemed Vees.
That brings me to the original point of this ramble though. Charlie's hotel is based on the idea of redeeming sinners so that they can go to Heaven. So it's not a stretch to say that one of the core themes of Hazbin Hotel is redemption. The idea that anyone can do better if they really want to do so. But coming to the hotel is a choice that they have to make. She can't force that on them. But if someone wants to do better, Charlie will welcome them with open arms.
Now, I don't think every single person on the show is going to be redeemed. But the Vees? Some folks reading this might not like this answer, but I could see a route where the show redeems them. All of them, yes, including Valentino. Do I think it'll happen? I don't know. But I'm fascinated with the narrative storytelling potential if that route is taken.
Additionally, given how often videos are made about Vivziepop, can you IMAGINE a world where this route IS taken and the countless videos made about Vivziepop afterwards? At this point, it's not uncommon for Vivzie to get into her fair share of controversy. A writing decision like this would definitely get people talking, in both a good and bad way. I think something like this would completely divide Hazbin Hotel's community.
So let's take a stroll down this hypothetical road together and see how that might go!
Velvette
I think there's a lot of narrative potential if Velvette is the one picked for reformation. There are different ways she could find herself on this path. We see in Velvette's interactions with Vox and Valentino that she is, at least, respected by the two of them. But she is ultimately a third wheel to whatever situationship Vox and Valentino have going on. During the finale song in the Season 1 finale, she has to slide into the center between Vox and Valentino, for instance.
But it doesn't appear like Velvette is too terribly bothered by this. She's actively recording video of Vox and Valentino, she posts pictures of the three of them together while Vox and Valentino are making out in the background, so clearly she's pretty alright with her current position. It's not like we see her getting annoyed by it. It's not like an "I'm here too" kind of situation.
However, we do see Vox's mask start to slip in one of the Season 2 songs (Hazbin Guarantee - Trust Us). Where Vox insists the listener trust him, only him, before pivoting to correct himself and reassure his comrades that he meant all of them. This could be a seed of doubt planted in the soil between the Vees... but if the end of the song, Velvette and Valentino's reactions to Vox, is anything to go by, it's that this has happened before. It's something they're all used to.
I think it would take pretty extreme circumstances for any of the Vees to leave. My guess is that we'll see what those extreme circumstances are in Season 2. My guess is that Vox probably betrays them somehow. Backstabs them and leaves them for dead or something. So, let's go with that assumption for the rest of this.
Vox betrays Velvette and Valentino. He's the ultimate lead of VoxTek, so they're no longer welcome in Vee Tower. Velvette's locked out of VoxTek's social medias so the only thing she can do to retaliate is angrily post about Vox on her social media. But what after that? She's still got her fashion line. I'm assuming that Velvette's models are bound to her by contract, she is an Overlord after all. So she could go start her own fashion business... or she could go to the hotel to spite Vox.
It might not start as Velvette genuinely seeking redemption. That's not really how Angel Dust's adventure there started either. But it could be a sort of the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of situation. Plus, I think there's a sort of a waiting shipping opportunity here. Angel Dust has Husk. Charlie has Vaggie. Alastor doesn't need or want anyone. Nifty is Nifty. You know who else is staying at the hotel though?
Cherri Bomb.
All I'm saying is that Velvette was recently confirmed to be a lesbian and Cherri Bomb is bisexual. Considering how much this show likes its ships, if Velvette ends up at the hotel for any reason, I could see this being the pair they go with. If they even decide to go with one.
I think it'd also be interesting to see Velvette's personality shift a bit overtime. I don't want to project too much of my own personal headcanons onto Velvette and present them as fact... but due to Velvette's age, I could see the potential for an arc having her step away from the social media spotlight. Fame can't replace friendship, that kind of thing. That's just a maybe, though. I'd need more information on Velvette's character beyond what we've seen to form an idea of how this would work.
I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to the idea that Velvette would so easily betray the Vees if she was asked to go spy on the hotel by Valentino and Vox. That was the entire idea behind sending Sir Pentious there, it was Velvette's idea even to suggest someone with no direct ties to the Vees infiltrate the hotel. Considering Velvette's brand image and tie to the Vee's image, I think her going to the hotel would be newsworthy. And we know how Vox is about his brand image.
Additionally, we know that the Vees enable each other's behaviours. Velvette doesn't seem to care too deeply, or at least doesn't show it, how the Vees act toward her. Finally, there's one final line that she and Valentino sing together that shows a little bit of her mind.
"Why be nice when you can be famous?"
Vox
I haven't really given much thought to what would happen if Vox was redeemed. It seems to me like he's the most unlikely candidate for it. I think it would be interesting from a narrative point if they went this route, though. It does seem like Vox has always been the way he is. We don't know when Vox and Alastor met, or when Vox asked Alastor to "join his team", but Vox does say "it's been seven years". But for some reason, I like to think they may have known each other longer than that.
The Vees seem incredibly close knit. They all make up gears in a working clock. I don't know if I'd call them friends, but they're definitely close coworkers. They share the same goal, they understand this goal, they don't oppose each other's activities, and they are all generally pretty tolerable to one another. That all to say that I believe it would be an incredibly difficult task for Vox to extend a hand out to Alastor to join something like that.
I don't think it's likely that they'll make amends. It would be interesting, though, to see the big battle that was teased in the Season 2 trailer that ends in Vox completely breaking down. Vox having been defeated, but standing back up to yell all of his grievances at Alastor, who's still smiling all the while. Maybe it'll make Alastor think or maybe he'll just rub the salt in Vox's wounds more.
Vox wants power. Vox wants control. Vox wants these things so badly that he appears to be willing to shatter his agreement with two other Overlords he (presumably) scouted out himself to join HIS team. When Alastor says he'd be powerless without Valentino and Velvette, I'm inclined to believe Alastor, but Vox doesn't seem to think so. But that's an interesting thing to think about. He'd be powerless without Valentino and Velvette? Why? This isn't elaborated on.
Velvette's got the social media control to tear VoxTek down. I think if Vox pisses off Velvette, he knows he's one click away from getting VoxTek cancelled. She does have that video of him and Valentino and photos of them. And that's just of the stuff we've seen on screen. She might have more. So maybe it's a mutually assured destruction sort of deal.
Valentino's influence is strong as well. He domineers over the porn industry in the Pride Ring. Which is obviously a fairly easy market to tap into in a place like Hell. If Valentino runs the porn industry, he's practically untouchable. We haven't seen Valentino's power on full display yet, but we have seen him angry. We've seen him angry enough to threaten to go murder people inside the hotel over Angel Dust just living somewhere else. Could he have done it? Quite possibly.
Vox controls the tech industry in the Pride Ring. Maybe he has more influence beyond that. We don't know for sure. Out of all three of them, I'm hard pressed to say they're in equal standing with one another. I think Velvette is able to have her power thanks to Vox's technology. Though we don't know if this technology only exists because of Vox or if Vox just decided to monopolise on it. For all we know, Vox is just the front-facing man and Velvette actually invented the tech.
That'd be one hell of a plot twist but unlikely.
Independently, I think Vox would need to lose everything in order to even begin the possible walk toward redemption. Quite literally everything. Maybe he turns on Velvette and Valentino, then when he needs them again, the bridge has already been burnt. His reputation in Hell withers to nothing. He loses his company. You get him to nothing... and then have someone stretch a hand out to him. Maybe Charlie.
I think he'd think about taking it. But then ultimately refuse, tell Charlie to fuck off, and run off. Maybe he'd die after that or maybe he'd come back afterwards. I'm thinking this would happen at the end of Season 2 if it did. Maybe in reoccurring seasons, he'd return in the same vein that Sir Pentious did. Coming around to cause troubles for Alastor, but having it end in Alastor completely defeating Vox every time.
But before any progress could be made, I think the beef between Alastor and Vox would need to be settled. Maybe that could happen. Maybe not.
Valentino
I feel it's necessary to add this before continuing, so...
DISCLAIMER: I am an abuse survivor in many many ways. I was not raised in a healthy living environment, treated poorly by the individuals who raised me, my family, peers, and authority figures alike. When I got older, I was treated like shit by ex-friends and ex-partners. One of which stalked me for years after we broke up.
Though, I'm in a much healthier environment now. Surrounded by dear friends and a loving husband. =3
But back on topic...
If Hazbin tried to redeem Valentino in the show, fans would lose their shit. The writing in both Helluva and Hazbin can be questionable at times. I think those who would be able to look at what the story is trying to say rather than what it is actually saying would be fine, but most things nowadays are "consumed" on a surface-level. I hate to say this but I don't know if the writers of Hazbin would be capable of writing this sort of thing in a sensitive manner.
The idea of redeeming anyone on Valentino's level of evil is unheard of in stories nowadays. Because doing so has those look at the choice and heavily scrutinise it. People already accuse the show's creator of romanticising abuse due to the way she writes Angel Dust and Valentino's dynamic. It's the opposite.
For the sake of doing due diligence, I went around and poked at different opinions online to see why people were saying that Angel and Valentino's dynamic was romanticised. Lo and behold, it appears the internet is doing as the internet does and has begun a mass game of telephone. Or alternatively, the ones saying these things are hearing it from other internet users and spreading the word. Or worse, they're fanfic readers who haven't engaged in the source material!
I also went ahead and rewatched the scenes with Valentino and Angel. I genuinely cannot understand where people get this idea of romanticization between the characters. ESPECIALLY WHEN POISON EXISTS??? But I'll go ahead and tell you this: as someone who went through that kind of shit, when I first saw the scenes between Val and Angel, it made me deeply uncomfortable. It struck the exact emotions I think the writers were going for. Val's control over Angel is legitimately haunting to witness.
I'll say as well Poison strikes a particularly strong chord in me. I resonate with some of the lyrics upon reflection of past relationships. When I look back at these relationships, I understood full well that they're bad for me but I continued to engage in them anyway. Why? To alleviate some sort of loneliness, because I wouldn't have anything else if I stopped talking to the people who were hurting me. Even now when I look back at those relationships, I can identify the good times had. But they weren't good people to me.
If you'll allow me for a moment to draw parallels from my life to Hazbin Hotel...
I had to take my ex-stalker to court a while ago to get him to stop stalking me. But even now, he continues to exist out there in the world. There's nothing I can do about that. That's been a difficult pill to swallow, since I feel that I cannot truly live my own life knowing he's out there and could bring it to a stop at any time. But thinking that allows him to have control over me.
To exist knowing that he exists out there was something I had to come to terms with. Another thing I've had to come to terms with is the fact that he's probably a different person by now. I know I am. Unlike Angel and Val, where the situation is pretty clear-cut black and white, where there's a clear villain and victim, my real-world situation was a bit different.
I understand wholeheartedly that I was hurt by my ex-stalker. To this day, his actions still continue to have an impact on how I live my life. They're things I'm trying to undo little by little. But at the same time, looking back at our relationship, I was not a great partner either. I was dealing with unmedicated, undiagnosed mental disorders. I wasn't living with a good support system. I had a questionable group of friends in terms of their emotional reliability.
I can see where I fucked up. I have changed and grown from that person I used to be. That's part of the human experience, changing and growing. My stalker continues to live his life (I hope) and change himself for the better. Or he could be the same person he was years ago. I don't know. I don't know him anymore. But there's an overall point to this.
My stalker is capable of changing. He is capable of becoming a better person. That would require him to look inside himself and acknowledge all the shit he's done wrong. Does that mean I need to personally forgive him? Fuck no. Like I said, I'm still recovering from everything he put me through. I will not forgive him but I acknowledge his life continues anyway.
Those who have done wrong are capable of change. That's the main point I'm trying to get at here. I think a lot of people nowadays believe that if they've done any sort of wrong, they need to be crucified or burnt at the stake for it. If you've wronged a person, you have to come to terms with the fact that they might not forgive you for it. Your life goes on anyway, regardless if you receive closure in the form of an accepted apology or not. You have to figure out how to live with that.
It's because of my history with everything I've been through why I find the idea of Valentino, out of ALL of the Vees, to be the most interesting candidate for redemption. Because you don't often see these sorts of topics tackled in fiction.
I'll point to Starlight Glimmer and Sunset Shimmer from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic as cases of villains who were redeemed. We only got to see Sunset Shimmer's path to redemption over the course of one movie. Starlight Glimmer was pretty much forgiven instantly with little to no consequences over her behaviour. Starlight apologised for what she had done and she received forgiveness.
So what happens when a villain comes to terms with all that they've done? What happens when they go out to seek forgiveness but don't receive it?
A long time ago, I was part of a roleplaying community that often had redeemed villains as a reoccurring plot point. Of course, these villains were rightfully scrutinised. No one believed that they had changed. Some didn't forgive them. From a creative perspective, this is an excellent challenge to overcome. It's unfortunate, then, that a lot of roleplayers shied away from such a herculean task. It's not fun to play a hated character, but relationships always evolve, change, and grow overtime.
People change all the time in real life. For better and for worse.
So if Valentino, the more controversial and hated member of the Vees, is ever hit with a moment where he's meant to reflect on everything he's done, and for whatever reason feels any sort of remorse about it... what happens? Obviously you can't force anybody to go to the hotel. But what happens if Valentino shows up? What happens if Valentino tells Charlie that he wants to change for the better?
Angel Dust, Husk, and Cherri would NOT be pleased about that. But it puts Charlie into an uncomfortable position. Her goal is to help Sinners who are serious about redemption, no matter what they've done. It challenges Charlie. It forces Valentino to confront everything he's done to Angel Dust. To everyone else he put through hell.
Angel obviously wouldn't forgive Valentino. Good. He shouldn't. Angel's been through so much shit. But Angel's lack of forgiveness toward Val is even better for the narrative in this case, because Valentino is forced to think about how to become a better person without receiving the forgiveness from those he hurt. It becomes so much more complicated to get from point A to point B.
I think it would take nothing short of a miracle for Valentino to start reflecting. He clearly likes the power he has over others. He's not remorseful or sorry for his actions at all. One has to first acknowledge there's an issue before they can begin addressing it. So as interesting as it would be for Valentino to walk down this path, he probably never will. But if he did, that's how I think it should (or would?) be approached.
I could see the Vees maybe being captured or imprisoned at the end of Season 2. Maybe they get their power taken from them or something. Then, maybe they're held at the hotel. I don't know if I much like the idea of forced rehabilitation on these characters, but that might be interesting for them to do for the story. It would be interesting to emphasise a "you can't force people to change" message.
I do hope they don't die, but I can't completely rule out the possibility of that being an option.
Do I think the Vees DESERVE redemption?
That's a difficult question to answer. I believe everyone is capable of change. I believe everyone is capable of changing themselves for the better, regardless of what they've done. It's just a matter of having the right resources and tools at your disposal. The person in question has to want to get better, though. That's the big thing.
When you've known a certain path for so long, it can be so incredibly difficult to switch your thinking to a different way. Usually, it takes a massive shift in one's worldview to reach that point. For me, a long time ago, it was the realisation that if I didn't change, I was going to lose someone extremely important in my life. This was further cemented by me losing the important person anyway, because I hadn't made the realisation soon enough.
You have to want to change.
So "deserve" isn't really the right word. That implies that they're entitled to redemption. Which they're not. No one's entitled to redemption. But are the Vees capable of redemption? Only if they want to strive for it. But for the Vees to strive for redemption would mean abandoning the very things they've built their core values around. It would mean a complete dismantling of their identities. They would have to rebuild themselves from the ground up.
That would also be an interesting thing to see for the story.
No matter the direction the Vees go in this season, I'm excited to see where Season 2 takes them. Redeemed or not, the Vees have fascinating character potential. I sure do hope that Season 2 doesn't just turn them into flat, one-dimensional villains!!!!
please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please
